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Twinks and trolls. Young men and old. One naturally turns into the other, yet in gay life they appear separate and distinct creatures inhabiting different realms of being. Many an older man wants a younger one, while many a young man scorns his elders.

Is there a bridge to this divide between twink and twilight? Can older and younger men find common ground? Maybe even have a relationship?

I first realized that I'd crossed that magic line recently when I pointed out to a girlfriend how hot the 20-year-old muscle twink was sitting nearby. She looked shocked and horrified by my observation and blurted out, "Shame on you. Leave that boy alone!" At first I thought she must be joking, but I quickly figured out otherwise from the contempt written all over her face.

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The issue surfaced again when not long after this incident I met a 25-year-old student at the baths. We had sex — great sex — over and over again. Afterward we talked and I discovered that this man was as intelligent as he was beautiful. He was completing his master's degree in engineering and doing research in nuclear medicine.

Don't get me wrong — it isn't often I take a shine to a trick at the baths. But with this young man it was all wedding bells and apple blossoms. Once again, my dear old friends were there to crap on my honeymoon picnic. "You're too bloody old," one tells me. "A kid that age doesn't know what color socks to wear in the morning let alone what he wants out of life," says another. "It wouldn't be fair to him to tie him down in a relationship with someone as old as you and it wouldn't last if you tried."

Now you might be thinking at this point that I must be like a hundred years old for these people to be so shocked. Close. I'm a horrific 38. Too old, according to some people, to deserve to live anymore or to even think about touching those "boys." Well, screw them. I say they're wrong and I have proof. Listen to some of these stories and tell me if you agree.

Ice cream from strangers

Meet a couple of my friends. Adrian is now 43 years old and his partner Francois is 31. That may not seem too dramatic at this point, but it probably was more so when they first met. Francois was 19 and Adrian was 31.

Francois was working at the local carnival when Adrian spotted him. He was interested and kept coming around bringing Francois ice cream and treats.

But it was Francois who turned out to be the aggressive one. He took the first step of inviting Adrian out for a drink. One drink turned into several until he got Adrian drunk enough to come on to him and get him into bed. (Young men can be so predatory — and I'm not kidding.)

This aggressive behavior came despite the fact that Francois was just coming out and inexperienced in the sex department. He'd only had sex with one other guy, when they were both 16, an experience Francois describes as "awkward" but not unpleasant.

Likewise, Adrian had not been with a lot of men. He had just ended an 11-year relationship with a man three years his senior. Remarkably, this was the only man he had ever been with since coming out.

Someone had lied and told Francois that Adrian was only 24 when they met, and Adrian didn't immediately correct the information. By the time the truth came out, they were well into their relationship and it was no longer an important issue. "But had I known at the time how old he really was, I would have worried about the age difference between us," Francois tells me in an interview over coffee while Adrian listens in.

There was another little lie that threatened the fledgling relationship. Some jealous queen told Francois that his new boyfriend had AIDS and was going to give it to him. It worried Francois and he brought it up. It wasn't true and Adrian offered to get a test to prove it to him, but Francois took his word for it. "That demonstrated both trust and maturity on his part," Adrian says, "and that made me like him even more."

Looking back, Francois says that having a relationship was the last thing on his mind. "I wasn't thinking long-term," he says. "I saw him. I liked him and it happened. I wasn't thinking any further ahead than that." In fact, at the time he found the idea of a gay relationship hard to fathom. "I thought only straight people had serious relationships. I didn't think it was possible for us."

Adrian says that when looking for guys, he's never minded hot guys but what he was most attracted to at the time was a well-grounded personality. He found it interesting and unusual that Francois didn't mind spending quiet time alone by himself.

Time went on and they soon found themselves deep in love and in a serious and stable monogamous relationship. After five years they were both confident in their relationship and Francois brought up the idea of introducing other men into the equation and having threesomes at the baths. "I didn't really want to," says Adrian, "but I thought that I would lose him if I said no and so I went along with it."

It seemed to be working out fine until Francois met a younger guy on the internet. "He was a real charmer," says Francois, "and I kind of fell for him." But he realized that the man didn't love him back and there probably was no future with him. "I had to think about what I wanted and what was important to me and I decided my life was with Adrian," he says.

They eventually opened the relationship up further and began to see other guys as they wished. "We had older friends in open relationships," says Adrian, "so the concept wasn't new or weird to us." At first he thought it meant that he would be the slutty one, but it ended up the opposite with Francois being more out there.

It was important to Adrian to take this step because he didn't want Francois to feel he had missed out on anything because of him. "I didn't want him to say in 10 years that he lost the best years of his life because I tied him down," Adrian tells me. "I try to let him experience things for himself, not tell him what to do or be controlling. It's his life to live and I don't interfere as much as possible."

Francois realized in this process that Adrian wasn't a fluke: he was mainly attracted to somewhat older guys because, he says, "perfect young guys kind of intimidate me and just want you to do them. I need more than that." It's now their policy to talk openly about who they fuck and not to keep secrets from each other.

They recently got legally married and own a house together. They say they have never been more committed and satisfied with their relationship. I told them about the barbs I'd received about "preying" on younger men. Then I asked Adrian if he had ever been criticized early in his relationship for dating a 19-year-old when he was just past 30. Adrian just shook his head and dismissed such critics and said: "It's sad that some people just don't understand love."

'He stole my heart'

My next couple, who met more than 20 years ago, provides another example.

John, who was 47 at the time, was sitting in a bar in remote Northern Ontario that was frequented by a mix of First Nations people and gays. He was in the middle of picking up some guy when Bob walked in, a vision of twinkness at the age of 23. It was Bob's first time in a gay bar, but he found the nerve to just waltz right up to John and his friend and sit down at their table uninvited and put the moves on John. "My trick quickly figured out that I was more interested in Bob than him and that his date for the night had been stolen by some cocky kid," John tells me with a grin, obviously happy to recount the story.

Bob had only been with two other guys in his life. Now Bob was single and plenty horny when he met John, and the stage was set for the heist of his life.

Maybe neither of them knew what they had found in each other that night, but John had the feeling he should proceed with caution. "I could tell he was a bit reserved and not into playing around, so I thought twice about what I told him. I knew that on the average night I slept with more guys than he had in his whole life," John told me. He also knew better than to tell him right away that he was the owner of a Toronto bathhouse. "I told him I was a mechanic," he says.

It was probably a wise move because Bob was shopping for a husband and the last thing he wanted was someone into fooling around on him. "I didn't want to be alone and I was looking for a life-long, monogamous partner," Bob tells me in an interview with the two of them on their porch with their dogs.

John admits it was a bit of an adjustment for him. "But when you realize that you love someone, you change those little things if that's what it takes to make the relationship work," he says. Personally, I don't consider giving up sex with others "a little thing," and John confesses it was tough at first and he did make the odd mistake. "That led to big fights and I soon stopped doing it. Bob was my priority and it was clear it was for life."

This is somewhat interesting because here we don't have an older man tying down a younger man, but a younger man tying down an older one. To this day Bob has only ever slept with three guys and no one else since meeting John almost 23 years ago. This is true despite the fact that after learning the truth that John was a bathhouse owner, Bob became the manager of the tubs and worked in it for many years. It seemed to me like working in a candy store and being on a permanent diet.

It worked for them and they do seem happy together. It's also clear that they are each the number one priority for the other. "We enjoy each other's company and we never get sick of each other. I like the little things he does for me like breakfast in bed and he enjoys nagging me for fun," says John, who I note does most of the talking, even when Bob is trying to get a word in edgewise.

"The age difference has never been an issue for us," John continues, "not in the beginning and not now" — though they both point out that if they met today they'd both be too old for each other. John would not be interested in a man in his mid-40s and Bob would not pay much attention to a 70-year-old. "But we grew old together," says John, "so it doesn't matter to us at all."

The bathhouse business did well for them and they retired comfortably. They now enjoy a quiet domesticity. "We kind of live a simple life," John says. "We're not into the scene, it's not because we don't like the gay scene; we just don't like any scene except the view from my porch. That would be true even if we were straight."

The most important thing they have found in each other is companionship. They say now that they are retired, their relationship is the center of their life and their ages don't matter and never will. John says it has always been important not to treat Bob like a kid and for Bob not to treat him like an old man. They are partners and they are both equal to each other. Always have been, always will be.

More than an apple for teacher

My next couple has another Bob and a Paul. This Bob is the older one in the relationship now at the age of 64. He is a professor emeritus of drama and enjoying his retirement with his younger partner, Paul, who is now 47 and teaches high school.

Bob and Paul were 22 and 38 when they met under interesting circumstances. They first tricked together at a bathhouse and parted ways without exchanging numbers. Not long afterwards they were on the same subway car together. Bob recognized Paul, but Paul did not remember Bob.

They ended up chatting and going home together for sex again. This time they exchanged phone numbers, but Paul used it for the first time to tell Bob something difficult. "He called to tell me that he had gonorrhea," Bob tells me in an interview with the two of them over the telephone. "I didn't care at all about the STD, I was just glad to hear from him." He says that Paul demonstrated real maturity and class by calling him to tell him that and it made him even more interested.

Bob found he was interested, but at the same time thought that maybe Paul was too young for him. He wasn't really into young men all that much. On the flipside, Paul was interested but wondered if Bob was too old — he wasn't really into older men. Paul says he was enjoying being young and free and sleeping with whomever he wanted and was hesitant to tie himself down. Bob on the other hand, wondered if it wouldn't be a mistake to turn Paul away just because of the age difference.

It turns out that on a lot of things they were of similar minds. "We are both gay men of a certain era and we have a philosophical objection to monogamy," says Bob. They both agreed that it would be okay to see other people. They had a few minor rules at first, like they couldn't bring guys home to their bed or stay out all night.

After about a year and a half they moved in together and feelings changed. "We were monogamous by default," says Paul. "It's not that we couldn't see other people, it's just that we were so into each other it just didn't happen for quite a while."

In the beginning Bob says the age difference between them was more pronounced. At the time Paul had less life experience, little formal education, and not much money. "Paul couldn't afford to travel in the beginning and it was something that I wanted and we were both aware of the difference in incomes," says Bob. Later, as Paul grew older those factors changed. He earned a degree, started making more cash, and had a few turns around the block. "Eventually things started to level out and we became more equal in many ways. Now we don't even think about the age difference," says Bob.

But the difference shows in other ways. Bob is older, in poor health and less interested in sex. In fact, they don't have sex together at all anymore. "But Bob is not worried I'm going to leave him for someone else," says Paul. "He knows it's just sex with these other guys and doesn't worry about it. Bob says he's not a jealous person by nature and that's he's actually happy that Paul can have quality friendships with other people to bring a richness to his life.

The thing that worries both of them the most these days is Bob's failing health. Paul says he dreads the idea of losing him to death or debilitating illness, and Bob is concerned about leaving Paul behind. It's something that is very much on both of their minds, but as Paul says, "The fear pales in comparison to the quality of the relationship we have." They say that they are happier and more in love today after 25 years together than they ever were.

They both agree that the key to a good relationship is communication. "By all means talk to each other, fight if you want to, but make sure you always communicate," says Bob. "It's the key to success and happiness in my experience.

Their final word of advice to anyone contemplating getting involved in a mixed-age relationship is this: "I had a relationship with Bob," says Paul. "Not an older man per se, but just Bob. He was who I was attracted to. It's about the person, not the age."

Hankering for love

Now meet my last couple, Hank and his lover River. They have been friends of mine for years and I've watched as they've grown older together. River was 28 and Hank 47 when they first met. They've been together about nine years, making River 38 and Hank 56. Hank always did like younger men, saying his ideal type is between 20 and 35. River on the other hand, likes guys close to his own age, or maybe a couple of years older, but not younger.

They both were fixtures on the local art scenes and River knew Hank by his outsider/rebel reputation. Hank says he was attracted to River instantly and saw him as boyfriend material right away River deliberately withheld sex on their first few dates because "I wanted him to want me forever, not as a cheap one night stand," says River. "Women don't put out on a first date for a reason — because it works, it sucks men in."

It took almost a month of dating before he eventually gave in. I still remember all the late-night phone calls from Hank trying to figure out why River wouldn't sleep with him. "Is it me? Isn't he attracted to me? This isn't normal, gay men don't do this!" Hank lamented over and over. Little did he know a trap was being set for him and he was taking the bait.

When they finally added sex, Hank realized that River was independent and had his own life and identity. He knew what he wanted and was going after it.

River and Hank both knew themselves well enough to know that neither of them was interested in monogamy. At first they had a lot of ground rules about what they could or could not do with other guys, but they eventually relaxed those terms when they got more confident in their relationship.

Both of them are clear that sex is not the basis of their relationship and never has been. "We are soul mates more than anything," says River. "Of course sex is part of it, but it's not the basis of the relationship."

Hank tells me that now after nearly nine years that don't have sex much anymore, but they go out of their way to be intimate with each. "We make time for each other and stay inside each other's lives," says Hank.

Hank also says that in some ways age has become simultaneously less and more of an issue. He is glad that River is stable and happy in his life, but says that it bothers him a little that River is in his prime and he is a middle-aged man. He doesn't mean that in a resentful or bad sense, just in that way that everyone wishes that they were always young.

He says that the biggest issue now is health. Hank has had the occasional health scare and he worries about the aging process and potentially being a burden on River at some point. He doesn't worry that River will leave him for someone younger, just that their physical differences may become more pronounced.

In terms of trust in the relationship, Hank has total confidence. That's something all the men I interviewed for this piece had in common — a strong sense of their own worth, of what they have to offer to a partner. That knowledge imparts stability that can bridge differences.

From Hank's perspective, "the problem is not so much that I am older, so much as he is younger." Perhaps that is the crux of it. It is the older man who perhaps has more to fear in terms of losing the younger man to someone else. It is also he who is more mature (presumably) and advanced in his achievements. He must learn patience and have a strong sense of the strength of the bonds between them in order not feel the relationship is threatened.

Hank says what he has learned is that no matter who you pick for a boyfriend, you are having a relationship with an individual because you like them. He says hopefully no one thinks that dating someone just because they are young is a good idea, because that's not a very solid foundation. Sex is one thing, but a meaningful relationship is another.

Looking past numbers

That's one of the two important lessons I learned from talking to these guys: it's about the person and not the age. You can meet a 20-year-old, who is very mature, and a 50-year-old about as smart and responsible as a teenaged delinquent. No two people are the same and neither are any two relationships.

The second thing that I learned was about sex. I was afraid that any younger man I might get involved with would either get bored of the sex with an older man, or get stolen away by some young hottie. For a moment I thought the solution was to lock them up and never let them out of the house. But the opposite proves wiser. Let them fuck whomever they want and make friendship the basis of your relationship.

On second thought, the biggest lesson that I learned was not to let narrow-minded people tell me who I can or cannot love based on their overly simplistic views of age. People think it's only old men chasing after younger guys, but the truth is some of them not only want to get caught, they're plotting and scheming to catch you. And that's perfectly all right.

Author Profile:  Joseph Couture

Joseph Couture is a journalist based on London, Ontario.